Are you ready to unlock the real secret to effective delegation? Many find that hiring creates more work than it solves, a frustrating experience you’re not alone in. Tonya Kubo and Gwen Bortner reveal why most delegation fails, often because what you think you need isn’t what you actually need. They dive into how to truly lighten your load, exploring the shift from task-offloading to empowering thought partners, and the critical importance of hiring for capability and judgment rather than just skills. Discover how to identify if you’re ready to delegate and cultivate a team that genuinely supports your business growth.
—
Watch the episode here
Listen to the podcast here
From Task Rabbit To Brain Trust: The Real Secret To Effective Delegation
The Delegation Dilemma: Hiring Creates More Work
Have you found that hiring people sometimes, maybe all the time, creates more work instead of less? If so, you’re not alone. That is an experience that I personally have had, and it is not fun. Can we just agree? It is positively not fun. Gwen and I are here to talk about why most delegation fails. I’m not saying it’s not because you hired the wrong people, but I’m also not saying it’s not because you didn’t hire the wrong people. It may just be because what you were looking for is not exactly what you needed.
If you’re new here, I am Tonya Kubo. This is Gwen Bortner. We are going to be talking about a recent breakthrough in my understanding related to delegation and how we have found a way to lighten your load instead of actually adding to it. Gwen, we’re going to kick this off with you because you were the person who said, “Tonya, maybe we should outsource some of the marketing tasks around here.”
I had been doing end-to-end marketing, everything from strategy to concept to writing to follow-up to measurement. Gwen, you were like, “Maybe you shouldn’t do all those things, Tonya. I don’t know. Maybe we should find some help.” I said, “No, Gwen. This is the only way it can be done.” We’re recording the episode because I’ve changed my mind. Before we get to that, Gwen, why don’t you talk about things from your perspective?
The first thing that struck me was, if I’m hiring you as a CMO, why am I also hiring you as a content producer? I consider those two different levels of work. It is not that they’re not both valuable, but they’re at different levels of work. Why am I also hiring you early on to do administrative work? We finally got some of this off your plate.
I’m not good at that, by the way. If you’re reading, just know that is not my gift in life.
Don’t ever actually hire her for that. She’s not good. She’s lovely, but that’s not her stuff. You were doing all of that end-to-end piece. I am the first person on the planet who will say you have to be careful when you’re hiring fifteen different specialists, each working only a couple of hours a week. What you’ve done there, although you may have efficient people doing very efficient things, the communication between all those people becomes so complex, you’re probably losing efficiency in communication.
I know because we had talked a lot about this. Your thought process was, “By me doing all of these things, my communication process is super straightforward because it all happens in my head. I don’t want to have to communicate with anybody else.” There is validity in that. I’m not saying it’s not true because there is true validity in that situation. It’s like, “When it’s all in my head, it happens fast. The miscommunication is very rare.”
Maybe not at all, but there’s probably even some in our heads that we miscommunicate to ourselves. That was my first thought. I couldn’t put the name to it until after we got past it, and we talked about it. When you said it, that was exactly what I was sensing. I couldn’t quite put a name to it. You were spinning in some of the areas more than you needed to spin because both brains were trying to do the thing at the same time. Your strategic brain and your tactical brain were both trying to function at the same time.
As your tactical brain was going, your strategic brain was like, “Don’t forget about this. Think about that. What about this other thing?” When your strategic brain was going, your tactical brain was like, “What about this?” Although the communication was faster, there was more communication than what was needed inside your head, going back and forth. You weren’t as efficient as in either space. I had a sense of it. Since then, we’ve been watching it with some of our other clients. We’re seeing that’s a bigger deal.
I don’t think people are talking about it very often, that this is a bigger deal than it sounds like. Often, it feels like, “I’m getting a CMO-level person doing my content, so that means it’s that much better.” That could be true, but that might not be true because of this miscommunication back and forth within your head. At the same time, it’s not something that necessarily makes sense or that you can afford to do at the earliest stages.
Sometimes, having one person wear all the hats makes sense. There were a whole lot of factors going on in there. Part of it was our stage of business and what was happening. Part of it was me seeing something that I couldn’t put words to, more instinct-based on just lots of experience. It was an interesting thing. I just kept thinking, “Should we be bringing someone else in to take over some aspects of it?” Not all of it, but some aspects.
That’s a good broad stroke of the situation because a lot of it is intuition. When you’re a small team, it’s not like you have this long history that you can then point to, “In this set of circumstances, we were successful here. That’s the circumstances we weren’t.” Most days, there are just three of us on the team. There isn’t a lot to discuss. It’s very easy when you have a small team to assign positives and negatives with the individual, and it being personality-based rather than it to be job function-based as well.
That’s something that you have taught me in the time that we’ve worked together. You have to divorce the role from the individual. You get a sense of what makes sense for one person to do when you just look at it all written out on paper. Does it make sense for the same person to be in charge of all these things? When we were talking about this, there were a lot of things that were much more efficient if it were one person end-to-end.
We see this all the time with SaaS tools. Why have five subscriptions to five different tools if you can have one tool that does all the things? Neither you nor I is a HighLevel user. The big selling point of really big comprehensive tools like HighLevel is that it does your email marketing, your website, your text messaging, you name it. It does it. You’ve got one bill. You’ve got one customer service department to reach out to. It’s very seamless and streamlined.
On the flip side, you have one customer service department to reach out to. If their customer service is subpar, you’re stuck. You have one potential failure point. If it fails, all your systems are down at the same time. The same is true with a human. For me, doing the end-to-end marketing, if I had a big project that I was working on that required my full focus, other things didn’t get done because I am only one person who can only do so many things at one time. There were limitations there from the beginning that we saw. We were making trades.
It was totally choices, not like, “This was a bad decision from the get-go,” because it was not.
What Is True Delegation? Understanding The Concept
What we’re going to be talking about here is true delegation. True delegation is something that we dove deeply into in episode four. We’ll put that in the show notes. We won’t spend a ton of time talking about what true delegation is. Gwen, I want you to give us your two-sentence description of true delegation for people who aren’t familiar with us.
True delegation is a multi-phase process. The first thing that most people don’t get is that they think, “I’ve told you to do this thing. You know how to do this thing, so it’s been delegated.” That’s step one. It is to make sure that you’ve explained and handed off the particular task, item, or whatever the activity is. That’s step one. Phase two is where we start looking at how they are doing it. Are they doing it and meeting expectations?
Different levels of things have multiple phases. Some can do it in two, and some take five. I’m not going to say how many phases it is. What we are working toward is this. Do they have the responsibility and the decision authority for that task? That’s when it’s true delegation, because if they come back to you and you still are the one that has to make the final choice, then it’s never fully delegated. You’ve only delegated the activity, not the actual task.
You’ve delegated the doing, but the responsibility piece is that you trust them to do it. When they know that they’ve hit something that they are above their pay grade, that’s when they come to you. They have the authority to make the choices and solve the problems. We expect that they’re going to solve the problems, not just come to you every time there’s a problem coming up. That’s a different level of delegation than what most people think of as delegating. The reason most people get frustrated with delegating is, “I’m still spending all the time.” You’re spending all the time because you’re training them to keep coming back to you instead of you saying, “No, you’ve got this. No, you have to have this.”
The reason that is a problem is if you are somebody who is hiring a team to provide help, and you find yourself more overwhelmed after hiring a team than you were before, it’s likely because this is exactly what you’ve done. You have offloaded tasks, but you have not offloaded full responsibility for the completion of a task or the outcome of the tasks. That’s the issue. Nothing has left your brain. Nothing is off your shoulders.
Offloading To A Unicorn: Finding The Right Fit
Going back in time, I remember when you would talk about, “Maybe we need to find somebody else to do the writing.” Part of it is that I would get caught up in the how. It’s like, “How do I find somebody who understands the business model because I am not the first marketing professional you have hired?” There is a very long and wieldy catacomb of ghosts of marketing past in their skeletons that we have had to recover from in our working relationship. Part of it is, “It took you how long to find me who took the time, the energy, and the effort to fully understand your business model, what made sense, what didn’t, to then understand what marketing approaches made sense and what didn’t.”
When you would talk about finding somebody else, I would think, “I don’t have time to find another me, Gwen. I don’t. How long did it take you to find me? Now, you want me to go out and find another me? If I knew of other me’s out there, I would bring them to the table, but where does that happen?” The first thing was going, “First, we have to have our messaging set. There are all these things that we need to have in line so we can very clearly communicate to somebody else that this isn’t your everyday five-step funnel.”
It was also like, “Not only do we have to find that, but then we also have to find somebody who has the understanding of your business and how you approach business.” How many times have you or I met marketing professionals that, when we talk about the way that you do business, are like, “That doesn’t work. It’s not like that.” We’re like, “But it is.” It felt like we’d have to offload to a unicorn. I was fresh in the unicorns at that moment. We were talking, and I kept saying, “Gwen, I just don’t know who we’d come up with.” You would throw out some names. We’d look on LinkedIn. You’d say, “We’re primarily on LinkedIn. I know this person does LinkedIn writing. Let’s look at them.”
What I ultimately came to terms with is, “Everybody does the same writing. We don’t want to sound like everybody else.” That’s why these individuals aren’t a good fit. In exploring a little bit further, I realized, “Everybody’s going to need to be told what to write.” I was able to write down my list of needs. If we’re going to offload these writing tasks, we need to find somebody who doesn’t need to be told what to write at every turn. That doesn’t mean that we were just like, “Go write for us,” because we don’t abdicate our responsibility here.
They were still going to need guidance for sure on what it was going to be. I wanted you to wear your CMO hat, which would be providing that guidance. You were also saying, “I need someone with enough experience that I can give them broad strokes. They can fill in all of the gaps.”
We found that person. Let’s just cut to the chase. They were somebody whom I’d worked with before. When I reached out to them, I said, “I don’t know if this is the kind of thing you do, but here’s a need I have.” Because I had been keeping notes of, “We positively need this. We positively cannot have that,” I was able to paint a really clear, accurate picture of what our need was. We need somebody to write LinkedIn content for us.
The person who writes the LinkedIn content for us positively cannot just give us a bunch of really bad copy-and-paste AI drivel. That’s not okay. This is who Gwen is. This is who she’s not. She doesn’t go off selling her ShamWow, so I don’t need any of that stuff. I don’t need any complex funnel marketing because we don’t have a complex funnel. It’s very specific to the individual. Everything we do is rather bespoke. It is very boutique around here. I had to be comfortable going, “Are you in, or are you out?”
Must-Haves Vs. Details: Critical For Delegation Success
The other thing that is important when we start talking about delegation in this way is being clear on the must-haves and the must-have nots, as you described them, and not getting so wound up about all of the other details. What I find often is that people are starting to offload. They get way more focused on the details and less focused on the critical aspects. It’s a hard thing to do because we’re used to thinking through all of the details.
If it’s someone skilled, they’re going to do the details differently from how you do the details. You need to not care about the details. What you need to care about are those critical skill elements, critical experience elements, critical behavior elements, whatever that set is, and focus on that. If they have that, then the details will resolve themselves so long as you realize they’re going to do it differently than you are. That may also mean they do it better.
Trust is one of those very weird things because you have to give it before you actually have it to figure out whether or not they should have it. We give trust before we can completely trust them. Share on XFast forward to now, how are you feeling about the content that we’re putting out on LinkedIn? By the way, dear reader, you need to know the content we put out on LinkedIn is a mix of Gwen’s writing and a mix of our copywriter’s.
What I’m finding is two things. One is because I had gotten to a point where I had fully delegated marketing to you, from my perspective, as far as the effort and the result, overall, nothing has changed in any negative way. I’m still seeing content posts regularly. I’m watching impressions, feedback, and conversations. A lot of it feels the same, which to me is a win because that means that you are able to release things in a way that you’re probably happy with.
I know you are happy because we’ve talked about it. You weren’t like, “I can’t believe that’s what just got posted on Gwen’s LinkedIn.” On the other hand, we’ve also talked about results. We’re getting better results by having someone who’s focusing on this. From my perspective, it’s costing me about the same or less, even though technically, I’m now paying you at a higher rate per hour. I feel like it’s a win all around because you’re getting similar pay, but having to put fewer hours in for it. It is because we’re having you focus mostly on CMO work.
We’re getting as good or potentially better content as far as engagement and all of the other pieces. For you, one of the things that you’ve talked about is that you now have a thought partner to be talking about marketing with. That allows you to do your job better as a CMO because this is the whole thing about, “The service I provide is an outside perspective.” You’re able to get an outside perspective on the marketing piece, which you were never able to get before. There’s an additional bonus for you in being able to do that.
The key to all of this, and I think the point of this, is trust. We have to be engaging with people that we trust. Trust is such a funky thing. Trust is one of those very weird things because you have to give it before you have it to figure out whether or not they should have it. We give trust before we can completely trust them because you don’t know that you can trust them until you’ve given them that. It’s very chicken and eggy. It’s a weird little dynamic. That being said, if you break trust, getting it back is a whole different ball of wax.
Everybody likely struggles with delegation because, from their perspective, they tried to do it once and it blew up in their face.
Overcoming Delegation Trauma: Starting With A Trial
Yes. It could be their tiny t trauma delegation. I have tiny t trauma marketing. They have tiny t trauma delegation.
Part of why this current relationship works is that I had enough bad experiences to know what questions to ask in advance so that I could make sure that we were aligned. Part of it was also having worked with someone in enough different circumstances to be like, “This is probably the person that can handle the job that we’re asking.” For us, we started with just a one-month trial. I’m going to walk through the steps because these are the steps to true delegation that you have laid out before.
The first thing we did was we met, got aligned on what the ideal outcome was, and got clear on how much freedom they had and what the non-negotiables were. To use a retail example, they knew very clearly that they had full authority to solve $10 problems, but only I had authority to solve $100 problems. Anything bigger than a $100 problem, we’d have to go to you.
The other thing was I had to make sure that this was somebody who was willing to take the time and energy to listen to podcast episodes so that they understood your voice and your style. I didn’t just say, “Go read our website.” I gave them six or seven different resources and said, “Go check out this. I need you to come to the table and ask me questions. What makes sense to you? What doesn’t make sense to you?”
We had some dialogue, and then I gave them an assignment. It was fifteen posts where I said, “I think we need to talk about our book club once. I want to talk about our upcoming events that Gwen is doing. I want to talk about those three times. We’ve got a couple of offers that I want to talk about four times. Let me see what you’ve got with that.” That allowed me to make sure that their understanding of what you did matched the reality of what you did. While they were writing, they were coming back and asking me questions, which helped me understand their thought process.
The Puzzle Piece Principle: Hiring For Augmentation
What I recognized very clearly on probably within about two weeks in is that what I didn’t know that I needed and was looking for was a puzzle piece. We’ve talked about a puzzle piece before. For some reason, I hadn’t quite connected the dots that I wasn’t looking for another me, and I wasn’t looking for another you. We already have you in the organization, Gwen. We already have me. We don’t need duplicates. What we needed was a third contributor who brought an entirely different perspective to your point. We found that.
That’s one of the big places where I think people struggle with delegation. It is because they’re thinking of hiring a clone. They would never say that. It’s like, “I’m the CEO. I don’t want to hire another CEO,” yet they want someone who’s thinking like they are and doing like they are. It is back to, “The details will be the same because they think exactly like I think and will approach it the same way I approach it.” I’m sure there are exceptions to this, but in most cases, hiring a clone is your worst answer. You want a puzzle piece as you’re describing.
It is somebody that’s going to come in and fit, but add to the picture. They do need to fit like a puzzle piece, but we are expanding the picture as we add that puzzle piece. It can’t be the puzzle piece that’s way out over here, and we don’t have anything even close to connecting it to yet. They’ve got to be in that next joining spot to be useful. That does make any particular delegation a bit of a unicorn hunt, but there are probably more puzzle pieces that fit than you think.
Capability And Judgment: Keys To Effective Hiring
What you’re talking about is hiring for capability and judgment. I’m just going to be direct here. Hiring for capability and judgment is not a $5 a day hire. It’s not even a $5 an hour hire. It’s not a $15 an hour hire. Part of the problem is that we want to offload our responsibilities. We’ll just use easy math. We want to take our $100 brain and replace it with somebody who we pay $10 or $20 an hour to. That’s not easy to do. I’m not saying it’s impossible. I’m sure there is somebody reading who’s like, “I’ve got somebody who’s twenty times better than me. I pay them $20 an hour.” Yay for you.
You've got to be focused on the outcome, not the process. Share on XI have just not been successful in finding those individuals in my career. We hire for capability. We hire for judgment. It is more important than skill execution because I can train skill execution. I can’t train you to make solid judgments in the moment without my insight. That’s something that you either need to bring to the table or not. What would you say to that?
Always hire for behavior first because we can train skills. Behavior and attitude, you can’t do anything about. Technically, maybe you can, but usually not. We can train skills. Part of it is, do we have time to train those skills? In this case, I don’t have time to train someone to teach them to write well. Part of the skill I’m expecting you to bring to this particular job is that you write well. I could. We could have made a choice to bring someone who had all of the right attitude and behavior, but we said, “No, we’re going to train you on the skills.” Knowing that that would not be a 30-day trial, but it would be a six-month trial or a year trial before we got them to where they needed to go, that’s also a choice.
It is not necessarily a bad choice, depending on what your timeframe is. Often, those are people you can get to move into huge, super valuable places. The thing most people forget is that they get too wound up about the details of the skills. Do they have the behavior, like you’re talking about, making good judgments, being able to be decisive, willing to take an appropriate level of risk in making a decision, being on time, and doing all of those things? Those things are the more important things, so long as they have the base skill that you require. We can train the best of the skills.
What you’re saying is addressing how any business owner can figure out whether they’re ready to hire or not. What I had to realize was that we weren’t ready to do this until I had the words to articulate the outcome we were looking for, without feeling like I also had to prescribe the exact steps to take to get to the outcome.
That’s the mic drop moment. You’ve got to be focused on the outcome, not the process to get it, and within reason. We’re all about systems and processes, so you can’t go off, run rogue, and do all sorts of crazy things. “Do I step to the left and then to the right, or do I step to the right and then to the left?” So long as it doesn’t screw up anything else that’s going on, I don’t think it matters. It is as long as we’re getting the same outcome.
Are You Ready To Delegate? Recognizing Red Flags
That’s the big red flag. If you’re reading and you find yourself feeling like you still need to control every step, or if you find yourself uncomfortable, not “This pushes me a little outside of my comfort zone,” but genuinely uncomfortable, losing sleep, needing to like take an antacid over the idea of somebody doing it differently than how you do it, or approaching the situation differently than you, then you’re not ready to delegate. You would say, Gwen, “That’s okay. It’s okay not to be ready.”
Yes, but don’t think it’s going to solve the problem. Don’t say, “I’m probably not ready, but I’m going to go ahead and do it because it’ll solve the problem.” It’s not going to solve the problem. It will compound the problem.
When you were asking me, “How do we get things off your plate?” I was very resistant to that. Part of it was, “I don’t want this.”
I wish I had a picture to see your face, because it was one of those, “So you don’t think I’m competent?” It was like, “No.”
It wasn’t even that. Here’s what I had to reconcile within myself. We’re grown-ups. We can admit this. It’s because I like it all. When you say, “What can we take off your plate?” All of us go to, “What don’t I want to do?” Honestly, on any average day, I want to do all of it. I may not want to do all of it at the same time or all of it on the same day, but I like every aspect of my role. What I had to shift was not so much, “How do I get this off my plate?” Then, you’re asking me to give up things I like. It was, “How could we solve this better? We’re not quite getting the results we want. We’re not quite getting the results we like. How do we get better results?”
That was a really interesting problem to solve. That got me very excited because then it was like, “Who do I want to work with? Who do I want as a thought partner? Who do I know in the space, or maybe who can I ask for introductions that could help me solve this rather intriguing, juicy little problem? It feels like we’re doing everything right, but something’s not quite hitting. Who’s that?” That felt intriguing. It felt like a challenge worth your time and energy. It felt like a challenge worth my time and energy versus “I just want to offload these tasks.”
That was the big piece of, “It’s not about you’re not doing a good job.” It’s “How do we allow you to do a better job?” That’s the piece. I’m the first person to acknowledge. So often, people come in and say, “Get rid of all your low-level tasks.” Some of those low-level tasks you probably should be keeping because they’re providing you rest that is restful work. They are providing satisfaction. There are all sorts of things, but there also can be a time when that’s no longer true. Tonya, you’re going to fall out of your chair. I’m just going to warn you ahead of time because you haven’t heard me say this. I said this two times to other people that I can now, for the first time, see that I’m going to have to give up bookkeeping.
I just want it to be said, folks, that it is 2025 in the year of our Lord that Gwen has committed to possibly giving up bookkeeping.
It probably will be because there are enough things changing in the business. Although I love doing it and I’m good at it, I’ve got all of those things that really won’t make sense for me to do. I truly only came to that when I started thinking about the future. It was like, ”That’s going to have to go. That’s going to be one of the things that has to go.” It will be a harder delegation for me than some because I care about it. I also know it’ll be an easier delegation than some because I know exactly the pieces that are the important pieces.
It might be hard, too, because you’re going to want to find somebody who loves it as much as you love it. There are certain roles. It is important to find somebody who loves it as much as you love it. In the case of us with a writer, we do need somebody who loves writing about the work we do and our clients as much as I love writing about the work we do for our clients, because they’re cool people. Maybe bookkeeping isn’t an area where you just need somebody as good as you, if not better. They don’t necessarily need to love it as much.
One of the things that will matter is that I use Profit First. I need someone who’s going to get the Profit First method and why I use it, and not try to fight me, because there are extra steps that go into leveraging Profit First. I can see someone saying, “You don’t need to do all that. Just do this.” It is back to what those critical elements are. What are the ones that have to be there? The good news is that there are lots of folks out there that know Profit First.
That’s not going to be like, “That means there’s only three people on the entire planet.” That’s not going to be the case. It’s back to understanding what pieces are critical in the bookkeeping and what pieces aren’t critical in the bookkeeping. That’s an example of when I do it, I can’t be like, “You have to do it my way.” That’s not going to make any sense. There may be a few minor aspects to it. It’s like, “No, I’m just going to handle this piece.”
What is a question that a CEO or a business owner could ask that reveals somebody’s thinking ability versus their ability to complete a task, so that you know that you’re hiring more of a thought partner or a puzzle piece than a clone?
The first thing that popped into my head is giving them two or three true, real-life problems and asking them how they’d solve them.
Get out of my head, Gwen Bortner. That was going to be mine. We’re just going to give you one, then.
You didn’t talk about this. I love that.
That’s it. The problem is that what we want to do is say, “Are you familiar with the Profit First method? Check yes. Check no. Have you done the Profit First method with a service-based business before? Check yes. Check no. How many years of experience do you have with the Profit First method?” We want this person to say, “I used to be a certified Profit First professional, but I’m not anymore,” or, “I went to ProfitCon for three years in a row.”
We want these experiences. What we need to be asking is your thought process. “Walk me through how you solve this problem.” Listen not for the steps they took to solve the problem. Does the thought process make sense? If the thought process makes sense, 90% of the time, they’re going to do the right thing at the right time. Would you say anything different?
No. That’s exactly it. It is listening to how they think about solving the problem and the steps that they are willing to take. I would also ask the question, “What was one that you weren’t able to solve? What did you do about that?” That also helps you figure out what they see as their maximum level.
That’s a good one. It is figuring out, “What’s the ceiling? What’s the floor?”
Is it too high, or is it not high enough? Is it about where it needs to be?
Summarizing The Juicy Tidbits: Key Episode Takeaways
I feel like this is a juicy episode with lots of tidbits. You might have to read closely to get all of them, but we will sum them up in the show notes for you. Gwen, thank you for allowing me to use us as a case study. We’re the best case study out there because we don’t have to worry about hurting our feelings.
We’re an awesome case study because who’s going to get blamed but you or me?
It works out when we’re on first. We didn’t have to sign any disclosures. We’re good. For our reader, if you take away nothing else from this episode, understand that true delegation isn’t about finding a cheaper version of yourself. It’s about finding or building a team of people who can bring their full capability to your shared mission and augment what you have in your organization already. We’re looking at supplementing, not supplanting.
When you hire thinking partners instead of task executors, understand that you’re going to do more than get work off your plate. You’re going to get better solutions, fresh perspectives, and the support that really does allow you to be in a place to help your business grow beyond what you could accomplish alone.If you are sitting in that seat right now and you’re thinking that your team is creating more work for you than they solve, or if you’re finding yourself constantly frustrated with how others handle your tasks, you might be stuck in this delegation pattern that’s keeping you burned out.
You need our Breaking the Burnout Cycle assessment because that is going to help you. Gwen has created this to help you identify whether your leadership approach is part of the problem that’s driving you to burnout. Go to TheBusinessYouReallyWant.com/Burnout. Take the assessment. Develop your action guide. We have all the steps there contained within the free guide. That will help you take the next step to building the team that supports your success. Gwen, thank you. I will see you next time.
Mentioned in This Episode
About Your Hosts
Gwen Bortner has spent four decades advising executives and entrepreneurs in 45+ industries. She helps women succeed in business without sacrificing happiness by identifying their true desires and aligning their business functions. She spots overlooked bottlenecks and crafts efficient plans toward sustainable success that center your values and priorities. Known for her unique approach to problem-solving and accountability through the G.E.A.R.S. framework, Gwen empowers clients to achieve their definition of success without sacrificing what matters most.
Tonya Kubo is a marketing strategist and community builder who helps entrepreneurs build thriving online communities. As co-host of The Business You Really Want and Chief Marketing and Operations Officer (CMOO) at Everyday Effectiveness, she keeps conversations on track and ensures complex business concepts are accessible to everyone. A master facilitator with 18+ years of experience in online community building, Tonya takes a people-first approach to marketing and centers the human experience in all she does.
